GPA wanted for restoration

richardparker@torhouse.fs · Post by **richardparker@torhouse.fs** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:13 am

I would like to get some idea of how much a GPA or GAZ 46 would cost to purchase for restoration.
I would like to get my hands on a set of drawings for a GPA and lots of Photos
I have restored several Land Rovers and at present a 1947 Austin 8.
Any help would be appreciated.

Restoring vehicles is my escape from my day time job as a teacher and I do not sell them when completed.

Mithril · Post by **Mithril** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:14 pm

Welcome to you.

The most complete one will be the best, because each missing part will soon become a quest to you ...

A GPA is a valuable vehicle. A restaured one may cost around 65.000 euros. I suppose a nearly complete one still to be restaured must cost around 35000 euros depending of condition and missing parts.

GPA2196 · Post by **GPA2196** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:19 pm

Richard,

Welcome to the GPA hobby. You pose an interesting question that can not be measured exactly since the answer is it all depends.

GPA's are considered pretty rare although they do seem to pop up out of nowhere once in a while. I believe the common consensus is that there are around 200 restored ones in the world. 12,778 were initially built between 1942 and 1943.

As for value, in US dollars, I have owned 5 parts vehicles. 1) 90% complete paid 18K in 2001 2) 3 parts piles from three different gpa's 10k in 2002 3) 80% complete paid 6K in 2003

With these parts I had enough to complete my primary GPA 2196 and sell my extra parts off for around 30K in 2007. I have upwards of 80K in my GPA mostly outsourced labor and specialty parts anchors, tools, accessories etc. My restoration has been down to the bolt and I have been offered 100K for it at completion but I won't sell it even at this price. I think you will understand when you are done with yours how attached you get to them after hunting for parts for almost a decade. Here is mine in the homestretch of restoration

There was one GPA for sale needing restoration for 55K but most people on this list warned that it had excessive bondo and was not worth the price...

There are two things you must balance, the condition of the hull... this will be the major cost in restoration. Most GPA's rear bottoms are rotten and need pretty extensive repairs due to the battery location in the rear and the fact that most GPA's do not have a drain there... so water collects in the joints. The other factor is completeness there are many parts that are unique to the GPA... I would recommend getting a parts manual and highlighting all the GPA specific parts and then look for those when considering a GPA project. More and more GPA parts are being reproduced by Richard Sanders, and can be hand fabricated by people like Dennis Francis but it is still pretty costly.

As for pictures Mithirl's site has quite a lot of great pics. http://homeusers.brutele.be/mithril/

I hope this rambling helps... I know others will chime in to help as well.

Cheers,
Tony

leo verhagen · Post by **leo verhagen** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:10 pm

Hi Richard,

Patience and a lot of luck are the key-words for finding a restorable GPA.
I agree with Mithril that you best buy one that is as complete as possible.
Even the GAZ-46 is very rare and hard too find, and parts are even more impossible then with GPA's.

In the meantime, while you are looking for one, try to get as much knowledge as possible about GPA's. Buy TM's and parts list, all replica obtainable (portrayel press) and look to as much photos as you can. Also try to find a GPA owner near you, who can help you and can come along with you if you are going to buy one. They do come for sale now and then, but there are many people looking for one, so if you find one you must decide very quick and have enough money raedy by that time.

They are expensive, yes, but their value will go up and not go down as with a modern car. I think a GPA will cost about twice the price now compared to 8 years ago......... :(

The internet is a blessing and a curse at the same time when you are looking for a GPA. You can search over the whole world for one now, but there are on the other hand more people looking for one as well.

Good luck finding one, if you want one bad enough, you will find one. Most of us on this Forum found one sooner or later.

Tony, your GPA looks stunning, you can be very proud of your work!!

richardparker@torhouse.fs · Post by **richardparker@torhouse.fs** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:19 am

Gentlemen
Thank you for your comments and support. I am sure that we will be talking about this for years to come, I hopefully will find one. I don’t know if I will be able to afford it, looks as a DUWK would be easer to find and cheaper.
Dose any one have any plans or drawing of a GPA that I could purchase a copy of and some workshop manuals.
Thanks
Richard
:cry:

Mithril · Post by **Mithril** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:40 pm

Dear Richard,

Please keep in mind that I have an grat GPA frame (no title) for sale. If the one on your future vehicle is rust rotten, this will be an option.

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:28 pm

Richard,

There are some drawings available at the Benson Ford Museum. However, it is not complete for all of the parts and the most important drawings (of the hull) are not present. Good luck in your search as everyone has given you very good info.

Donovan.

richardparker@torhouse.fs · Post by **richardparker@torhouse.fs** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:43 pm

Thanks for the input gentlemen.
How about this for a totally insane idea.
Has anyone got a hull in a restorable condition. As a starting point. Then I can get bits and pieces from a GPW witch are easy to come by then look for specific GPW bits.

Totally mad idea ye??????

Donovan · Post by **Donovan** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:27 pm

Richard,

The problem is that if you have a hull in restorable condition, you probably have most of the vehicle. If you were able to find just the hull, then finding all of the associated parts to make it work would cost a small fortune. Yes, the engine, transmission, and transfercase are the same as a GPW but there are so many accessories that just to find them would be a daunting task irrespective of the cost! That is why you must research and understand what is unique to a GPA so that when you are able to find one in restorable condition that you can accurately evaluate whether the vehicle is complete and if the asking price is fair.

To give you an idea, the GPW has the same engine, trans and axles, but this is what you need to find to make it work in a GPA:

Engine: the GPA engine needs a double pulley, different generator mount, different starter (12V), different generator (12V), different regulator (12V), 6-bladed fan, capstan pulley assembly and drive lines, etc.

Transmission is the same but has a special drain hookup on the bottom (could use 90 degree street els to serve same purpose)

Transfercase: need special front assembly to be able to seal hull to transfercase, need GPA PTO, need propellor rear bearing assembly, need bilge pump including special brackets

Axles: need GPA springs (more heavy duty and have different attachment than GPW), need to move mounting brackets on axle (at different location than GPW); need rear axle seal assembly (on axle), need rear axle seal tube (from body to rear axle), need vent tube hose that attach to body, need brake hoses that attach to hull; need special seals and assemblies on front knuckles.

The list goes on and on and on. If you started with a hull and then bought all the necessary parts that you would have to restore anyways, I could see easily paying over 100K just to get the parts you needed. Many of these parts are complicated and almost not reproduceable unless you have an original part to start with. Yes, some of us have extra parts but we are very leary to let these go as there is no parts house that we can run to to get the part if it breaks on us.

I have seen some of the original drawings and they are terrible. They (Ford and the Military) were doing things fast and the drawings are not what you would expect to get today.

Good luck in your search and I advise that you take the advice the others have given and try and learn as much as you can about a GPA. It will help you when you do find one to purchase. I know as that is what I did.

Donovan.

leo verhagen · Post by **leo verhagen** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:41 am

Hi Richard,

I agree with Donovan, you best buy a GPA in the most complete shape you can find.

In addition to Donovan's list:

GPA Rear axle is different than GPW. Not impossible too find but more expensive then a GPW one.

You will also need the dashboard and all hull and deck cover plates, front and rear seats and all the small items on the deck such as lifting rings, rear light brackets, surf shield and brackets and so on, and on........ All items special to the GPA and not found on a GPW.

Yes, you must absolutely find a complete vehicle.
My GPA is allmost complete, but the few missing parts I'm looking for will not be easy too find.
It will become a complete nightmare for you when you buy a hull only and than go look for all the other special parts.

GPA2196 · Post by **GPA2196** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:31 pm

Don't forget the windshield is different too.... Boy do we all sound negative.... I guess years of a GPA quest will do that to people :) I truly hope you find yourself a nice complete GPA somewhere.... I would concur about the completeness being so important... By the way do you have a lead on a restorable hull? That would be a great valuable find on its own....

Best of Luck,
Tony

Post by **fordgpa** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:39 pm

Hi Richard,
4 years ago I wanted a GPA :D
When i first heard the same stories as above ,I thought bye bye GPA ,but after a month one of my amphib friends said to me there is one for sale at ...... I went over to have a look.
It was very expensive and I was not sure if it was complete ,because they took it apart.
Two months later [I was sick on bed] i saw a Mexican GPA offerd for sale [ I live in the Netherlands Europe] also for a lot of money but complete and far far away.
After a lot of emails I went to mexico and bought it,put it in a container and shipped it home.
It costs a lot of money but if you want to have one keep your eyes and ears opened and you will find one.
A few months ago somebody found one in Rusia at a scrapyard.
They have always bad spots at the rear and the front ,but you can repair it.
Good luck in finding one ,you never know in wich barn one is hidden. :wink:

Peter

richardparker@torhouse.fs · Post by **richardparker@torhouse.fs** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:43 am

Hi gentlemen
I hope you all have enjoyed the Christmas festivities and are looking forward to a good new year.

Most of my Christmas has been spent pondering and wondering about the want for a GPA. I have taken onboard the comments about research and I would like to know were I can get the following:

A workshop manual ( A good one )
Some good research books
Any other book, website, DVD/ Video, any other information.

:lol: Once again I would like to thank you for your help.

Richard

leo verhagen · Post by **leo verhagen** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:26 pm

Richard,

You will need TM-10-1263 maintenance Manual for Ford Amphibian 1/4-Ton 4x4 and TM-10-1264 Parts list Model GPA Amphibian.
Another good addition would make SNL G-658 Ford Master Parts List. This last one is very thick and covers all parts Ford made for Military Vehicles and not only the GPA. But this book containes many GPA drawings you can't find in any other book.
I will try make a few scans out of this book later this evening.

You can buy these 3 books in very good reproduction at this site:

http://www.portrayal.com/

Please send me you home adress at fordgpa@zeelandnet.nl I can put all GPA photos I have on a CD or DVD Rom and send it to you if you like.

For a nice DVD movie on GPA's you can look on eBay at this link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-Amphibious-Vehi ... dZViewItem

It is a cheap movie, no sound, but fabulous movies!

I did not want to sound negative in my earlier responses, just realistic :)

Hope this answers your questions, you are making a good start this way.

Cees · Post by **Cees** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:19 pm

For The SNL G-658 Ford Master Parts List you can try Erik Korevaar he has perfect repro's for sale.
I send you a PM with his mail adres

Cees

ford gpa g504

GPA wanted for restoration

GPA wanted for restoration

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